Interesting article

I can't wait to see how this turns out.

Published on November 27, 2004 By Cappy1507 In Politics

This could be an interesting couple of weeks.

http://www.northcountynews.com/view.asp?s=11-24-04/news5.htm

Comments

on Nov 28, 2004

Interesting article

By: Cappy1507
Posted: Saturday, November 27, 2004 on A true alternative to the red and blues
Message Board: Politics
This could be an interesting couple of weeks.

http://www.northcountynews.com/view.asp?s=11-24-04/news5.htm

Hey Cappy....have you read the entire article?

Bush now leads Kerry by about 136,000 votes in Ohio. A battle is looming over nearly 155,000 provisional ballots. The Ohio Democratic Party has joined a lawsuit by elector Audrey J. Schering, which asks United States District Judge Michael H. Watson to order Blackwell to impose uniform standards for counting provisional ballots in all 88 counties.

The lawsuit cites the United States Supreme Court's opinion in Bush v. Gore, which "held that the failure to provide specific standards for counting of ballots that are sufficient to assure a uniform count statewide violates the Equal Protection Clause of the United States Constitution."

Of 11 counties that had completed checking provisional ballots, 81 percent have been ruled valid.

Even if all 81% went to Kerry it still won't be enough.

Cappy1507

on Nov 28, 2004

Obviously you didn't read the entire article, because there are thousands of additional undercount ballots that would come into play once the provisional are counted. This could lead to a very slim Kerry victory.

Dont worry drmiller I'll help you out.

But as Howard also pointed out - and my colleague David Shuster so thoroughly extrapolated in a previous post on Hardblogger - the provisionals plus the 'undercount' could make things very close indeed. The punch-card ballots 'where it looks like nobody marked anything' when read by an optical scanning machine, might produce thousands of legitimate votes if hand-counted and judged by Ohio's strict laws defining how many corners of the proverbial chads have to be detached to make a vote valid."

Cappy1507

on Nov 28, 2004

I know it's a long shot, and not the kind of thing people talk about, but it could happen. If it does, I just want to see how gracfully Bush handles it. And his supporters.

drmiler

on Nov 28, 2004

It still ain't going to happen the way they think. Most experts agree that 40% of the provisional ballots fall to the incumbent (Bush). Which only leaves 41%. Now take out for nader,cobb and the other guy out of that 41%. It don't leave a whole lot left for Kerry does it?

Daiwa

on Nov 28, 2004

This is really sad. The nation isn't just Ohio. If they push this, other states where Kerry's margin was less than Bush's in Ohio will come into play and we might as well not bother going to the polls anymore. Those 17,000 lawyers should be fitted with concrete boots & dropped into Lake Erie.

Do they really think that conniving to flip Ohio, in an effort to give the election to the guy who lost the nationwide popular vote by 5%, would be a good thing? The left howled bloody murder about the "injustice" of 2000, so where's their sense of justice now? Busting their ass to put the loser in the White House. Ya just gotta love all those principled folks out there. This is an Oliver Stone movie gone bad. No wait a minute, that can't be right, they start out that way... OK, gone badder.

Cheers,
Daiwa

drmiler

on Nov 28, 2004

Reply #5 By: Daiwa - 11/28/2004 12:33:30 AM
This is really sad. The nation isn't just Ohio. If they push this, other states where Kerry's margin was less than Bush's in Ohio will come into play and we might as well not bother going to the polls anymore. Those 17,000 lawyers should be fitted with concrete boots & dropped into Lake Erie.

Do they really think that conniving to flip Ohio, in an effort to give the election to the guy who lost the nationwide popular vote by 5%, would be a good thing? The left howled bloody murder about the "injustice" of 2000, so where's their sense of justice now? Busting their ass to put the loser in the White House. Ya just gotta love all those principled folks out there. This is an Oliver Stone movie gone bad. No wait a minute, that can't be right, they start out that way... OK, gone badder.

I believe "worse" is the word your searching for *Daiwa*.

Daiwa

on Nov 28, 2004

As for how Bush would handle it, in the unlikely event it came to pass, I assume you'd want him to handle it with the same grace and humility of Mr. Kerry by demanding a recount in every state where Kerry won, just in the interest of being certain that every vote was counted, of course.

Cheers,
Daiwa

dabe

on Nov 28, 2004

I doubt that the election would be flipped. But, I find it kind of comforting knowing that the GAO is proceeding with its investigations of alleged voting irregularities. I would hope that the outcome of these investigations will resolve the issues and put people's minds at ease for the subsequent elections. That would be nice.

Cappy1507

on Nov 28, 2004

I say go for it. Unfourtunately for him I don't think he'll have time if it does come to pass, because all of the other states will be certified by then.

Everyones been saying that no election is "fair" both sides cheat. I think we need to put an end to it, and if over turning an election is what it takes, then so be it. I have no confidence in the electoral process, and neither do a lot of other people. I honestly beleve that there was a concerted effort to make sure that the election went for Bush in Ohio. There are countless people who have field complaints, and who have been for the most part ignored. I think one of the things that has the left so upset this time around, is that no-one is saying that it's unfair that there were 7 hour long waits to vote in Ohio. That is disenfranchising the voter. I don't think i could wait that long. I have a job, I got up early and hit the poll, if there was a line around the block I couldn't wait I'd have to get to work. How would you feel if you went to vote and couldn't? What would you have done if someone told you that you'd already voted. Or if you kept hitting the Bush button and it kept saying you voted for kerry? What if you waited in line for 3 hours got up to the front and the lady told you you had to go to another poll, because they switched it since the last election...didn't you get the letter? All of these things happened to people in Ohio.

If the same thing was happening and it was Bush who lost, I'd have the exact same stance, Figure it out. Clean house. Fix the process And lets get back on track. I don't want to see something like whats happening in the Ukraine to happen here. The country is evenly split at this point between the republicans and the democrats, its been a tumultuous couple of elections. Let build off them now, before it gets bloody. Nothings been done. I cast my vote on a butterfly ballot, they are hard to figure out, and hard to align. I asked for help just to make sure I had it correctly inserted. I held it up to the light and there were "hanging chads" despite me pushing very firmly with the poker. The 2 leading manufacturers of electronic voting machines are owned by Pioneer Bush supporters. One got a huge contract in Iraq, and lost a lawsuit in california, because it misrepresented it's machines secutrity. Big Business is all about a handshake and a nod. We need to make sure that everything is on the up and up.

Daiwa

on Nov 28, 2004

I'm going to go take a shower.

They push as hard as they can to increase the voter turnout and when the voters turn out, resulting in big lines, it's disenfranchisement. Since when can the exact number of people at a polling place at any given time be 1) predicted, and 2) regulated so that no one misses more than 10 minutes of work? As for not having time because all the other states will be certified by then, I doubt that would stop Kerry if the shoe were on the other foot. Like I said, this whole thing is very sad. The notion that all the mistakes and errors favored only one candidate is just plain nuts. They occur in every election and inevitably fall in a random distribution closely resembling the certified vote. The rest of this silliness is just wacko conspiracy theory. Zogby, who should run for Pope since he apparently believes in his own infallibility, is tapdancing as fast as he can to avoid the total collapse of his business; of course he'll feed the conspiracy buffs what they want to hear. Such a joke.

Cheers,
Daiwa

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